Peyton Manning is an overall better quarterback than Tom Brady
'Peyton Manning is an overall better quarterback than Tom Brady - 11/20/2007 (https://www.debate.org/debates/Peyton-Manning-is-an-overall-better-quarterback-than-Tom-Brady/1/)' Instigator: crronaldo180 (Pro) Contender: RepublicanView333 (Con) Round 1 crronaldo180: "Peyton has 2 regular season MVP's and Brady has none. Although Brady is, i'll admit, playing amazing football now, over their careers, Peyton is an overall better quarterback. Also, Peyton currently still holds the record for most touchdowns in a season,and his team didn't have to run up the score for him to acheive this record." RepublicanView333: "Hey, Dan I will acknowledge your points of "Peyton has 2 regular season MVP's and Brady has none. Although Brady is, I'll admit, playing amazing football now, over their careers, Peyton is an overall better quarterback. Also, Peyton currently still holds the record for most touchdowns in a season, and his team didn't have to run up the score for him to achieve this record." And I will pick each point apart separately. For the MVPs, yes, being a MVP is an honor but, postseason is were it really matters. Contrary to Manning's 1 Super Bowl ring Brady has 3. Yes Brady is playing great but Brady has always played great. Manning, though not a lot, has been inconsistent at few points in his career. Like the last two weeks against San Diego and Kansas City. Brady no matter the situation has played great always. Peyton yes holds the record but that was with no running game. Brady has always had a running game to even it out. With Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, or Laurence Maroney. Manning had Edgerin James for a bit and only now he was one in Joseph Addai. Also, Brady has done good with no receivers. Brady up until this year has had 3rd rate receivers yet has still dominated. Manning has always had great receivers but now when Harrison is injured yet he still has Clark and Wayne he struggles. But, your point about the score I must admit is true." Round 2 crronaldo180: "First Philly, You think postseason is where it matters, but to get a regular season MVP you have to play good all season. To win a super bowl MVP, you only have to play one good game. Also, if you win, the winning quarter back is 3 times out of 4 going to win the MVP. Also, yes manning has a weaker running game, which means he has to do more to help his team. Brady has less pressure because he has all those runners in the back. Manning has to carry his team all by himself. He has to singlehandadly march his team down the field for a score every drive. Last, I am talking over all his career. You can't say manning is bad just because he had a couple bad games this year. Look at all of Peyton's amazing performances in the past." RepublicanView333: "First to all that will be voting please vote on the debate not if you like Brady or Manning nor the Patriots or Colts. Peyton Manning is a great player – a certain Hall of Famer – who puts up some nifty numbers. We have never disputed his greatness. What we have disputed are his merits relative to Tom Brady's. Manning fans insist that his gaudy stats of the past two seasons are a sign of his superiority. Yes, to win a regular season MVP you have to be good but it doesn't even Compare to a post season MVP.you can play like a man on fire in the regular season BUT if you don't win a Super Bowl its not worth it. I'll show you some of Bradys and Mannings stats in comparison: 1999 – In Manning's second year in the league he led the Colts to a 13-3 record and an AFC East title while averaging 26.4 PPG in the regular season. In Indy's first playoff game the Colts hosted wildcard-game winner Tennessee. The Indy defense played well, surrendering just 19 points to a solid offense that averaged 24.5 points per game. But Manning, at home in the dome, put just 16 points on the board, the team's third lowest output of the season, while completing just 19 of 43 passes for 227 yards and zero touchdowns. Manning's 60.9 passer rating was his lowest of the entire season. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 19-16. 2000 – The Colts went 10-6 behind Manning's 33 touchdown passes and an offense that averaged 26.8 PPG in the regular season. Indy went to Miami in the wildcard round and its defense played very well, intercepting Jay Fiedler three times and surrendering just 23 points in a game decided in overtime. But Manning struggled against the Dolphins and, in a game that lasted more than 70 minutes, was a non-factor. He completed barely 50 percent of his passes (17 for 32) for just 194 yards and a touchdown. The Colts generated 11 points off Fiedler's interceptions but put a total of just 17 on the board, 10 points fewer than their regular-season average. It was Indy's second lowest scoring output of the season. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 23-17, in overtime. 2002 – The Colts went 10-6 and drew a gimme in the wildcard round: a 9-7 Jets team with a paper-thin defense that surrendered 336 points that year (Indy boasted the better D, surrendering 313 points). Manning played the single worst statistical game of his entire career (14 for 31, 137 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs and a career-low 31.2 passer rating) and failed to put a single point on the board. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 41-0. 2003 – The Colts went 12-4 in the regular season and scored 27.9 PPG. Manning kept it going in Indy's first two playoff games and was spectacular leading 41-10 and 38-31 victories over Denver and Kansas City. But Manning, facing foul weather and a good defense, returned to his historic postseason form in the AFC title game against New England. Indy's D again played well under postseason pressure, stifling the Patriots in the red zone and forcing them to settle for five field goals. But Manning tossed four interceptions and posted the third lowest passer rating of his entire career (35.5). Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 24-14. 2004 – The Colts again went 12-4 in the regular season, this time scoring 522 points (32.6 PPG) and entering the playoffs a seemingly unstoppable offensive juggernaut with the fifth-highest scoring offense in NFL history. Manning, of course, set numerous regular season records. Most notably, he tossed 49 touchdown passes while shattering the single-season passer rating record, with a mark of 121.1. It all took a familiar turn for the worse in the playoffs. In a divisional game at New England, the Colts mustered just 3 points – their lowest offensive output since the 2002 playoff loss to the Jets. Once again, Manning played his very worst game of the season in the playoffs, completing 27 of 42 passes for 238 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT and a passer rating of 69.3, his lowest of the year. Result: Manning chokes. Colts lose, 20-3. clearly Manning likes to choke. You'll notice a remarkable difference when you look at Brady's postseason performances. Let's take a stroll down a much more attractive memory lane. Roll down the windows and caress yourself in the fresh, breezy air of success. 2001 – In Brady's first playoff game, and just his 15th NFL start, he crafted one of the great postseason performances by a quarterback in NFL history. Facing a 13-3 fourth-quarter deficit and a blizzard of legendary proportions, Brady was virtually flawless in the fourth quarter and overtime, ran for one touchdown, led a game-tying drive near the end of regulation and went 8 for 8 on New England's game-winning overtime drive. In some of the most severe conditions in franchise history, Brady completed 32 of 52 passes for 312 yards (with one first-half interception). Did we mention the blizzard? Brady critics are quick to decry the controversial "tuck rule" that overturned a potential late-game fumble by Brady. The call certainly gave New England hope, but it was not a decisive one. The Patriots still needed two scores to win and Brady was virtually flawless when the game counted most. We submit this as the greatest postseason debut by a quarterback in NFL history. Result: Brady gets it done in crunch time. Patriots win, 16-13. Two weeks later, in just his 17th NFL start, Brady led the only walk-off scoring drive in Super Bowl history. After St. Louis forged a 17-17 tie, New England took over on its own 17 with 81 seconds to play and no timeouts. The football establishment expected New England's inexperienced QB to take a knee and play for overtime. Instead, Brady completed 5 of 8 passes (one incompletion was an intentional spike) to put New England in range for a decisive field goal. It was the first walk-off, game-winning scoring drive in an NFL championship game since Johnny Unitas led the Baltimore Colts to an overtime victory in 1958. Brady became the youngest quarterback to win a Super Bowl and was named the game's MVP. Result: Brady gets it done in crunch time. Patriots win, 20-17. 2003 – Brady led the New England offense to 11 points in the final three minutes of Super Bowl XXXVIII – throwing one touchdown to linebacker Mike Vrabel – and lifting the Patriots to another Super Bowl title. New England trailed, 22-21, midway through the fourth quarter. With the NFL title on the line, Brady completed 10 of 13 passes for 103 yards on New England's final two drives. He ended the game passing for 354 yards and three scores and set a Super Bowl record with 32 completions. In just his fourth year in football, Brady became the youngest quarterback to win two Super Bowls and joined Hall of Famers Starr, Bradshaw and Montana as the only players in NFL history to win multiple Super Bowl MVP awards. Result: Brady gets it done in crunch time. Patriots win, 32-29. 2004 – In a game that should define Brady's career, the Patriots entered the AFC title game on the road in a hostile arena against a 16-1 Steelers team that boasted the No. 1 scoring defense and No. 1 total defense in all of football, on a frigid night in which the temperatures reached single digits. It was the second-coldest game in Pittsburgh history. Despite the obstacles, Brady calmly picked apart the league's top defensive unit, completing 14 of 21 passes for 207 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs and a passer rating of 130.5 – his highest of the season. The 41 points he helped engineer were the most scored against the Steelers since Week Two of the 2003 season. Later, we found out Brady was bed-ridden in his hotel room the night before the game, with a temperature of 103 and with IV needles stuck in his arm. Result: Brady gets it done in crunch time. Patriots win, 41-27. Brady picked up where he left off two weeks later in Super Bowl 39. Facing a 15-3 Philly team that boasted the No. 2 scoring defense in football,Brady was again flawless and again reserved one of his best games against a their toughest test" Round 3 crronaldo180: "Hey Kev, Again, I have to disagree with you on the point that the postseason is more important than the regular season. Of course, you have to play well in the postseason to win it all, but if you are not good in the regular season, you will not even be in the post season. YOu have to play well in the regular season just to make it to the postseason. Manning can always come through and make it to the postseason. Ill admit that he has choked alot once he has gotton there, but aren't we forgetting last year? Manning had to pull out some close games. For example, the Colts beat the Patriots just 28 to 24. In that game Manning out passed Brady 349 to 232. That was a very close game where on the last play of the game with only a couple minutes remaining, Manning had to march his team down the field for the game-winning touchdown. Also in that game, Manning had a 53% third down efficiency, when Brady only had 35%. Also, in the Super Bowl, although the Bears hadthelead the whole first half Manning wasable to dig deep, take the lead, and hold it all the way to the end." RepublicanView333: "Howdy, Dan you still don't get it. Postseason is were people make there name. With out postseason regular season is pointless. Do you know why Donavan McNabb was really never included with the greats of our time? Because of his failure in the postseason. He didn't do as bad as Manning but until 04 be choked everyyear right b4 the Super Bowl. your point: "but if you are not good in the regular season, you will not even be in the post season. YOu have to play well in the regular season just to make it to the postseason." Is true, But you assume tht "manning" is the only one who pulls through the regular season. Brady is equally successful in the regular season. The thing that rises him above manning is his postseason record. Which even you can't doubt is WAY better than Mannings. just go back to my "Manning to Brady" stats in my last debate. o.K. Manning didn't choke for 1 year when he got to the playoffs but that 1 year is nothng compared to all of Bradys years. Brady has done what Manning did (1 time) 3 times. To the stat about the 3rd down percentage that has nothing to do with the Qb its the Dfense. that only goes to my side of the debate. Like in all his years Manning has had plaYERS backing him up. Brady had to suffice with 3rd rate receivers who only got elevated to the next level by Bradys work while Manning through out his career had talent behind him. (Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge James, a great D) Brady hasn't had any of that and he has pulled it off. Manning didn't choke in the Super Bowl. clap clap clap. BRADY HASN'T EVER CHOKED IN A PLAYOFF GAME NEVER MIND THE SUPER BOWL. Whoo. here we go ahhh BRADY HAS NEVER CHOKED IN A SUPER BOWL HE WAS PULLED OF COMEBACKS. WITH TEAMS WAY BETTER THAN THE BEARS! sorry for the loud voice it was nessisary (lol)" Round 4 crronaldo180: "Hey, Sorry kev, but I just think we'll always disagree on this topic. You say the postseason is the most important, but if any team just focuses on the postseason, they won't even get there. They will just float through the regular season and have a horrible record. Then they will have no chance at all. Also, you say that teams and players make names for themselves, but believe it or not, other people also care about the regular season. For example, when the Colts went undeafeated so long last year and the year before during the regular season, they were everywhere. Even at the Super Bowl, they were talking about how good the Colts did in the regular season. Also, Manning has and still is considered one of the best quarterbacks of the milenium. He has had alot of trouble in the postseason. Until last year, he always went out in the first or seond round. He was almost nonexistent in the postseason before, but he was still popular. You know why? Because he was dominant in the regular season. Also, you say that Brady is equal or better than Manning in the regular season. If this is true, than why does Manning have 2 regular season MVP's and Brady has none. Although he is heading for one this year, he will still be trailing Manning in regular season performance. Next, you say Brady has had no tools. I agree he hasn't had as much luck as Manning in past years, and thats why he hasn't dominated like Manning in those past few years. When he won Super Bowls, he actually did have talent. They just weren't obvious studs like Harrison, or Chad Jackson. They were more like Joseph Addai, where the were underrated, but still almowst Pro-Bowl quality players. For example in 04, he had Asante Samuel, Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, David Givens, Teddy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, and Adam Vinatieri, who was an amazingly talented kicker at the time. He also had Deion Branch, the MVP of Super Bowl XXXIX. When Brady didn't have really talented tools like this, he didn't dominate like Manning can. This year, Brady has many tools, like Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour, and Junior Seau, just to name a few. Manning does have tools, but they're all out with injuries. Harrison is out, and they are still missing one starting linebacker, they were missing two. They are still missing Freeney of course, who is out for the season, and they don't even have Anthony Gonzalez, a top rookie wide receiver. Even with all of these injuries, Manning is holding up well and winning games as usual. If Manning had all of his tools, I have no doubt in my mind that he can perform like Brady. Also Kev, in Super Bowl XXXVIII on Brady's last drive, the score was tied, so Brady wasn't really on the spot. He was just trying to squeeze in the win before the end. He always had OT to fall back on. Also, in all of his close games, Adam Vinatieri was the real clutch performer. Vinatieri made a 41-yard field goal in 2004 and a 48-yarder in 2002. Sure Brady had to get there, but he only had to go about 20-30 yards to get there. What's that, two first downs? Then in 2005, Brady had no pressure on him. He was the seven-point favorite going into the game, and failed to cover the spread, winning by only three, as they did in 2004 also. Basically, although the Patriots are often idolized for their late game heroics in Super Bowls, they often UNDERACHIEVED to get in their high-pressure situations." RepublicanView333: "Hola,(illegal immigrant for hello)lol Hey Dan, b4 i start I would like to say it was fun debating this. on this site there aren't many sports debates i like to get in to and this was a...treat. Dan, Dan, Dan you are starting to get sloppy. Postseason is of course more important. (duh da duh) With out postseason there is nothing to play for. You here it all the time on ESPN. Like the Colts-Pats game earlier this year. They said, "It is the biggest regular season game in recent memory" But, they also said, "It doesn't matter. This is a appetizer for what will happen in the postseason." If you are a TRULY good team and you concentrate for the post season, then you won't slip in the regular season and even if they did they would rebound. Thats what SUPER BOWL (postseason) champs do. And Dan to settle this when this site gets polls lets poll and see who thinks post or regular season is more important. Now Dan, I never said that people "did't care" about the regular season. Quite the contrary. a majority of people only care about regular season because there team never makes it to playoffs...cough,cough, Miami O.K. Dan almost doesn't count except with grenades. Yes, the Colts play good in the regular but I say it AGAIN&AGAIN if you don't make it to the Super Bowl there is NO POINT in being good in the Regular season. They said b4 Manning won the Super Bowl that his career will be undefined if he never won he would be a choker for his whole life. Yet Brady has defined his career 3 times going on 4 this year. (unless Philly goes to the Super Bowl;-) ) Yes Manning can be called one of the best QBs of the millenium because a millenium is 1000 years. (I think) and Cave Man didn't play QB. just playing with you But really he may be called one of the best but he will for ever be known as the Indy Choker (haha like my nockname 4 Manning) He will for ever be known as the QB who choked. yes, his ring helps but still all those years really marked him as a choker. What does popularity have to do with anything. This is who's a better Qb not whos better at selling credit cards. Yes, Brady is better but in the regular season because of his personel before this year. (not because they were good b/c they WERE not good. Look at the personel in comparison Harrison-Dion Branch (Harrison Corey Dillon-Edgerinn James (James Bruschi-Freeney (Freeney Vinetari to Vanderjact (at that point Vanderjact for the kickers the only reason Vinetari has the rings and name is b/c Brady didn't choke getting them to the playoffs My point is b4 this year Brady has made a name and classefied as #1-2 QB in hte league with SUB-PAR personel beside him Manning ALWAYS had excellent personel and played at the same level as Brady. And now when some of Mannings tools are missing...Manning starts playing like a normal QB not like the Super QB we have come to expect. Are you serious...Not on the spot? THE SUPER BOWL 4TH QUARTER, AND NO PRESSURE? Dan if he knees and lets it go to overtime and Philly or St. Louis or Carolina gets the ball and drives on the Pats D then its over you have to be composed and cool and atleast try for something. Something Brady did and didn't choke. Something Manning has proved to be incapable of. (just look at my stats) Anyway Dan, this has been a great debate. I must say your closing argument was killer. It was really challenging to match it. I you can put rounds like that out you could really get good on this site."